how did the entire Universe come from nothing?

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Tue, 10/30/2018 - 15:46

(Reply to #241) #242

arakish

@ Tin-Man Re: Rant

I have to agree with you. We need a Rant Hall of Fame here where we can post the bestest of the bestest.

rmfr

Tue, 10/30/2018 - 14:57

(Reply to #242) #243

Tin-Man

@Quantum Re: "Firstly, stop

@Quantum Re: "Firstly, stop calling me little boy..."

Funny, you keep saying that. What you fail to see, however, is that is exactly what you are to most of us on here. Hell, youngster, I literally have SOCKS older than you are. And your inability to listen to rational reasoning certainly does not help your position any. So, like it or not, you are still a little boy in many aspects, regardless of your "legal age."

Tue, 10/30/2018 - 15:35

(Reply to #243) #244

arakish

Oh, hey, Tin-Man.

Sorry. I didn't see you posting there. I guess I really need to watch where I am walking when laughing so hard...

rmfr

Tue, 10/30/2018 - 15:48

(Reply to #244) #245

Tin-Man

@Arakish Re: "I guess I

@Arakish Re: "I guess I really need to watch where I am walking when laughing so hard..."

*trying to catch breath*.... Sorry... *gasp-gasp*..... Bwaaa-haaa-haaa!.... *gasp*.... Didn't mean to trip.... *deeep breath*.... you up, Arakish... *curled up on floor in fetal position*.... *holding tummy*.... Oooohhh.... *wiping tears of laughter from eyes*.... That rant..... by Quantum... *gasp*.... Just.... too... funny!... Bwaaa-haaaa-haaaaa!!!.... Help..... Oxygen.... Please.... *gasp-gasp*....

Mon, 10/29/2018 - 18:42

(Reply to #245) #246

algebe

@Quantummechanist: 'the sky

@Quantummechanist: 'the sky a protected ceiling': Ok, so the ozone layer in the sky, protects us from harmful radiation the comes from the sun

Does your Quran tell you where the ozone layer came from? Allah didn't create it to protect life.Bacteria in the early oceans learned to photosynthesize around 2.5 billion years ago and began to release oxygen as a by-product, transforming the atmosphere in the process. Some of that oxygen was turned into ozone through reactions triggered by ultraviolet light. So life ultimately created the ozone layer.

Quote me a line where it says Allah created life, life created oxygen, and oxygen + UV created ozone.

Tue, 10/30/2018 - 11:08

(Reply to #246) #247

quantummechanist

[Quran 6.125] Those whom

[Quran 6.125] Those whom Allah wants to guide, He opens their chests to Islam; And those whom He wants to leave astray, He makes their chests tight and constricted, as if they are ascending to the sky: Such is the penalty of Allah on those who refuse to believe.

"makes their chests tight and constricted, as if they are ascending the sky" the higher the altitude the less the oxygen concentration , hence your chest goes tighter. If you were at say 10000m right now you wouldn't be able to breathe, nobody in 7th century arabia or anywhere else in the world could have known this, as people at that time didn't have aircraft etc.

A response to what you said(very well thought btw)
"Does your Quran tell you where the ozone layer came from? Allah didn't create it to protect life.Bacteria in the early oceans learned to photosynthesize around 2.5 billion years ago and began to release oxygen as a by-product, transforming the atmosphere in the process. Some of that oxygen was turned into ozone through reactions triggered by ultraviolet light. So life ultimately created the ozone layer."
you see Allah created the sky as a protected canopy for life as it is now. bacteria survived without the ozone layer as it released oxygen as a by-product (as you said) which gave rise to the ozone layer. The 'protected canopy' was made for life as it is now, because we need it to survive, had it not existed we would all have been dead many long ago, bacteria didn't need it obviously.

Tue, 10/30/2018 - 14:58

(Reply to #247) #248

CyberLN

qm, you wrote, “nobody in 7th

qm, you wrote, “nobody in 7th century arabia or anywhere else in the world could have known this, as people at that time didn't have aircraft etc.”

No one in the 7th century climbed a mountain?

Tue, 10/30/2018 - 15:22

(Reply to #248) #249

quantummechanist

good point but, nobody had

good point but, nobody had been high enough, i mean Everest hadn't been climbed till the 1950's as we didn't have the knowledge and means of climbing. no body in those times had climbed high enough to know, plus even on Everest, you can still breathe at the summit, but you would die if you stayed there for 3 days or so, even with acclimatisation

Tue, 10/30/2018 - 15:53

(Reply to #249) #250

CyberLN

qm, you said, “nobody had

qm, you said, “nobody had been high enough, i mean Everest hadn't been climbed till the 1950's as we didn't have the knowledge and means of climbing. ”

How do you know this?

Wed, 10/31/2018 - 00:28

(Reply to #250) #251

quantummechanist

the first attempt of climbing

the first attempt of climbing Everest was in the 1920's that failed, then in the 1950's Edmund Hillary and Tenzing Norgay successfully climbed the mountain.

Wed, 10/31/2018 - 06:14

(Reply to #251) #252

CyberLN

qm, so you’re saying that you

qm, so you’re saying that you KNOW no one else made that climb? How do you know that? Have you had your eye on that mountain for the length of its existence? Grab a clue, you do NOT, in fact know. All you have is information about the first recorded climb in modern history.

Wed, 10/31/2018 - 09:58

(Reply to #252) #253

Sheldon

It's useless to offer

It's useless to offer anything remotely subtle, he won't get it. He simply has no grasp of epistemological limits, or the philosophical burden of proof. Only a teenage boy could be this clueless and this confident at the same time.

Tue, 10/30/2018 - 16:51

(Reply to #253) #254

arakish

They would only need to climb

They would only need to climb 7000 feet before oxygen deprivation begins. That is less than one-third of Everest's elevation. Hell, I've been up to the Pike's Peak which is more than twice that. And had to have oxygen given to me since the highest I'd had ever been was about 6000 feet. I am now currently living at an elevation of 6800 feet and suffered altitude sickness until I got use to it.

They would not have had to climb an Everest to discover this. Most persons who live below 2000 feet elevation will suffer "altitude sickness" when going to an elevation greater than about 5500 feet for more than a few days. Symptoms include a tightening in the chest, shortness of breath, seeming inability to catch one's breath, extreme lethargy (which is not good at really high elevations).

I think they knew about the "tightening chest" phenomenon. As with all scientifically illiterate persons back then, they used this logic (reworded to fit all phenomena):

Religious Logic for ANY Phenomenon:
I, [insert name], am incapable of understanding how [insert phenomena] could have happened. Thus [chosen deity] must have done it. — RMF Runyan

rmfr

Wed, 10/31/2018 - 00:31

(Reply to #254) #255

quantummechanist

i have been to 2000 metres

i have been to 2000 metres with no issue.
i live at only 250m above sea level now
what's the highest elevation you've been at?

Wed, 10/31/2018 - 08:27

(Reply to #255) #256

Tin-Man

@Quantum Re: "what's the

@Quantum Re: "what's the highest elevation you've been at?"

Hey there, young man! Good to see you are still with us. Many years ago I was a skydiver, and we would regularly go up to fourteen and fifteen thousand feet (4267-4572 meters) to jump. No oxygen required, but we weren't up there for a long period of time. I did do a jump from eighteen thousand feet (5486 meters) once. That plane was equipped with oxygen, and we had to breathe the oxygen during the ride up to saturate our system before we jumped out. Otherwise, there was a chance we would pass out during freefall. Sometimes I really miss those days. *grin*

Fri, 11/02/2018 - 11:02

(Reply to #256) #257

quantummechanist

I'm going skydiving actually

I'm going skydiving actually for the first time, probably in February or so. Would you recommend having an instructor strapped up with you while skydiving the first time or just go solo?
I read on the website they train you before you dive if you are going solo.

Fri, 11/02/2018 - 15:46

(Reply to #257) #258

Tin-Man

@Quantum Re: Skydiving

Hey there, Quantum! Dude, that sounds great! Almost makes me a bit jealous, because it has been a few years since my last jump. I do miss it sometimes.... *reflective sigh*....

Well, to answer your question, I would say it depends on the drop zone, the instructors, type of aircraft, and a few other minor factors. Oh, and the cost and how much you are willing to spend. Also, is it something you plan on pursuing to get your jump license, or is it just something you want to do once to mark it off your bucket list? Hey, tell ya what, just PM me and I can fill you in and answer any questions you have much easier that way. Happy to help you with any advice. Does my heart good to see a fellow adventurer. *smile*

Wed, 10/31/2018 - 09:56

(Reply to #258) #259

Sheldon

"i have been to 2000 metres

"i have been to 2000 metres with no issue."

On a flying horse no doubt. Fnarr...

Wed, 10/31/2018 - 10:29

(Reply to #259) #260

arakish

I don't remember. Pike's

I don't remember. Pike's Peak is 14,000+ feet (>4267 meters). And how high is Mount Denali (formerly Mount McKinley). Let me look it up. Accoriding to ArcGIS Explorer, it is 20,310 ft (6190 meters). Thus, I have been twice and thrice your 2000 meters.

And how long did you spend at 2000 meters (6562 feet). And I said you have to spend more than a few days. Definition of few = 4 to 10. At least where I am from. Anything less than 4 we always said twice, or thrice, then we went to few, then up to several. And where I am from, several always meant anything ≥10.

When I went from literally sea level (actually 68 feet) to 6800 feet, it was about 8 days before "altitude sickness" hit me. Now that I am acclimated, I go up to 8k, 9k, 10k, even 14k+ feet to fix and or maintain the many geomancy stations we monitoring the Yellowstone Caldera.

rmfr

Fri, 11/02/2018 - 11:05

(Reply to #260) #261

quantummechanist

Denali is a bit above 6000m I

Denali is a bit above 6000m I think, probably wouldn't do that until I have experience at 4000m+, I do plan on climbing mont blanc in the summer (still a beginner so don't want to risk in winter) its 4510m. How long would you acclimatise for that?

Fri, 11/02/2018 - 11:45

(Reply to #261) #262

quantummechanist

i spent probably around 3

i spent probably around 3 hours at 2000m, wasn't much to do up there lol

Fri, 11/02/2018 - 13:13

(Reply to #262) #263

arakish

Altitude Sickness takes about

Altitude Sickness takes about 4 to 10 or more days before it hits.

When me wife and I climbed Mt. Denali (in the summer, I'd never try it in winter), we carried oxygen bottles and OGAs with us. OGA = Oxygen Generation Apparatus.

rmfr

Tue, 10/30/2018 - 17:56

(Reply to #263) #264

Nyarlathotep

quantummechanist - good point

quantummechanist - good point but, nobody had been high enough... i mean Everest hadn't been climbed till the 1950's...no body in those times had climbed high enough to know

Hannibal's army suffered from altitude sickness during their famous crossing of the Alps before 200 BCE. Your notion that ancient peoples didn't know about altitude sickness is ludicrous.

/e Surely you must realize that making up bullshit like that and getting caught, damages any credibility you might have. Even if god is real and you are doing his work; making up obviously false non-sense is doing damage to your cause.

Tue, 10/30/2018 - 17:08

(Reply to #264) #265

algebe

@quantummechanist: The

@quantummechanist: The 'protected canopy' was made for life as it is now, because we need it to survive, had it not existed we would all have been dead many long ago, bacteria didn't need it obviously.

That's not really logical. The so-called canopy developed as a result of waste emissions by bacteria. That process created an environment in which other animals could evolve. The ozone layer is the inevitable product of chemistry and physics, but even if it wasn't there, some forms of life would have survived and prospered, though possibly not on land. Water also shields against UV below a certain depth.

If Allah wanted to protect us against UV, why didn't he simply command the sun to stop producing it?

Fri, 11/02/2018 - 11:44

(Reply to #265) #266

quantummechanist

"If Allah wanted to protect

"If Allah wanted to protect us against UV, why didn't he simply command the sun to stop producing it?"
well, that's what the ozone layer was created to do. As humans we can't survive underwater so we need the ozone layer, Allah made this universe for us not only to live in, but also discover things too.

Fri, 11/02/2018 - 13:15

(Reply to #266) #267

arakish

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rmfr

Fri, 11/02/2018 - 15:50

(Reply to #267) #268

Tin-Man

@Arakish Re: "Tin-Man, I

@Arakish Re: "Tin-Man, I need some fertilizer. please."

Really?... Seriously?... *incredulous look*.... Dude, just take a cruise through almost any of the recent threads. There is plenty there for the taking.

Tue, 10/30/2018 - 01:14

(Reply to #268) #269

Cognostic

You can lead a douche to.....

You can lead a douche to......... wait a minute ............... no you can't. I have literally been proven wrong..

Tue, 10/30/2018 - 16:29

(Reply to #269) #270

Sheldon

"yes science had a cause"

You keep saying this as if it has some meaning? Human beings created the scientific method, it's a tool for objectively understanding reality, and the material physical universe. Of course it had a start, what a particularly stupid observation for anyone to make?

Islam had a start, plagiarised as it was from earlier superstitions that also had a starting point, does this make them irrelevant? Double standard alert!!

I'm guessing not given the risible double standards you seem determined to use to prop up your superstitious beliefs.

***WHAT OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE CAN YOU DEMONSTRATE FOR ANY DEITY?***

Your dishonest obfuscation hasn't changed the fact you can demonstrate nada for your superstitious beliefs. You've come to the wrong shop to sell unevidenced superstition.

Tue, 10/30/2018 - 16:54

(Reply to #270) #271

arakish

And that is why I say science

And that is why I say science has always been around... It was the Scientific Method that had a beginning. Science was always there. Just not utilized very efficiently.

rmfr

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