how did the entire Universe come from nothing?
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Of course God has been making posts on these threads...
@Arakish Re: "Of course God has been making posts on these threads..."
Hey! Not fair! You swore you would not tell anybody about me like that!..... *reading your post again*.... Oh, uh, oops. My bad. You didn't actually say who, did you?... Err-uh.... Disregard, everybody! Just pretend you didn't see this! Carry on! Nothing to see here!.... *strolls away whistling innocently*....
@ Tin-Man Re: Never Tell
Ever heard "Open mouth insert foot"?
Apollo, you wrote, “where did the univers come from? either it created itself, or it always existed.”
1. I don’t know where the universe ‘came from’.
2. Are you quite sure that self-creation and eternal existence are the only two choices?
No, I'm not sure, but they are two obvious ones. if you can come up with other possibilites, that would be great!
by the way, Sheldon has declared that his atheism is not a claim to knowledge. Fine. That implies he has no knowledge with which to oppose theism.
How do you define atheism for yourself?
Apollo: "No, I'm not sure, but they are two obvious ones. if you can come up with other possibilites, that would be great!"
I already posted it somewhere. I was sitting on me back deck when I thought, "Wouldn't it be nice if we had a universe to put a bunch of night lights …" BOOM! There it was.
Apollo " David, has God made any posts in this forum? you ask. I don't know. You seem to be implying you know he hasn't. Prove it."
How can you still grasp what an argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy is, I could taught it to a donkey by now.
"In the meantime, the topic is How did the universe come from nothing"
A second argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy, also a straw man as atheism doesn;t make any such claim, doesn;t make any claims at all.
"Atheists have, apparently, a priori rejected a creator God."
Nope wrong again, atheists don't believe YOUR claim for a creator deity, and you have bored us all to death with your cliched apologetics yet have been unable to demonstrate a single shred of objective evidence for your claim. You have even made the risible claim that objective evidence doesn't exist.
"where did the univers come from? either it created itself, or it always existed."
Another fallacy called a false dichotomy fallacy. Demanding an answer to an unknown to innsert your deity into is called a god of the gaps argument.
" you are stuck with one or the other. Pick one and prove it."
No we are not, and since atheism doesn't claim to know how the universe originated we need prove neither.
You on the the other hand do claim it was magic'd into existence by an invisible deity, prove that or give it a fucking rest.
As you wrote in another post, astheism is not a claim to knowledge, so you don't have knowledge to oppose theism.
You lack belief in God. so what? big deal. What do you believe in? What do you know? You used to make vacuous claims to the ability to be "objective". You seem to have wisely dropped that fairy tale. So what's taken its place?
People can believe anything they want. Why does it matter if people believe in God? What's it to you?
David, you asked, “Has god made any posts in this forum?”
I haven’t read any but his Tweets are VERY entertaining!
I've been told that God actually has His own Facebook page. Have even seen a few postings from it. Of course, Satan has a Facebook account, also.
@ Tin-Man Re: "…Satan has a Facebook account, also."
Aww! Man! Now you go and tell on me. I thought we promised each other not to tell... Umm... Err... Oops. My bad. You never said who Satan was... Damn! My fault...
very well said sir! wish I'd thought of that.
"Why does he have to prove his God exists?"
Otherwise it's just another vapid archaic superstition. You may be so insecure you need the crutch of superstition, but since you have come here to convince others your beliefs have some validity, then objective evidence commensurate to the claim is a minimum requirement for those who are not desperately clinging to the egotistical nonsense that the universe was created with us in mind.
But atheists, havining a priori rejected a creator God, are left with either the univers created itself, or it always existed. Pick one and prove it.
Golly Gee Willikers. How dense can you be Apollo? Atheists have NOT rejected a creator deity, atheists do NOT believe anybody's claim of a creator deity. How hard can that be to get through your latinum reinforced with self-sealing stem bolts concrete skull of yours.
ATHEISTS DO NOT BELIEVE ANYBODY'S CLAIM OF A CREATOR DEITY.
If you are not intelligent enough to understand what that means, then go back to Kindergarten and start your schooling over. Because you are so damned ignorant, that you are a Religious Absolutist. You are retarded.
Apollo "But atheists, havining a priori rejected a creator God, are left with either the univers created itself, or it always existed. Pick one and prove it."
No they're not, no matter how many times you repeat this lie it will remain an argument from ignorance fallacy. Atheism makes no claims about the origins off the universe. In fact atheism makes no claims at all.
Such is your subjective ramblings. Besides, you say atheism doesn't make a claim to knowledge. Then, incoherently, you claim to know belief in God is a superstition. Very convoluted. Prove its a superstition. Ohhh, I know, now is when you inject atheism is not a claim to knowledge (so you don't really know its superstition, you're just on a vacuous, convoluted ramble.)
He has the burden of proof, he has to show objective evidence his god is real.
His holy book is the claim, not the evidence.
I tried to find god when I was a Christian. I prayed and read the Bible. Reading the Bible is what made me stop being a Christian.
So … I guess we can then safely ignore all your posts from here on since you do not exist?
Thanks for clearing that up.
Wrong Banana breath.... We know people exist. We know computers exist. We know forums like this exist. We know people like you and I hang out in forums like this. We know these people read, write and post content to these forums. These are all observable, empirical, repeatable facts. Please cite anything at all that supports the idea of your god that is equivalent to any of this.
No one has ever seen your god write anything. The person sitting across from me is writing now. No one has ever seen your god do a damn thing. People all around me are doing all sorts of stuff. It is an extremely small leap of logic to assume that another person is posting comments just as I am doing. It is totally nuts to imagine an invisible being who exists beyond time and space is magically making words appear. Nothing similar about it at all. You don't get to cite "God's creation" without first proving there is a god. People, internet sites, alphabets, computers, language and the rest are all existent. Please demonstrate the same for your God.
Moses getting written laws on the top of a mountain, while others were at the bottom and couldn't hear or see anything, Saul (Paul) having a FUCKING VISION in a FUCKING DESERT, and our favorite prophet Mahomet being alone in a cave, receive verse from an 'invisible" angel...
How could people be so gullible?
"Your posts could be a fabrication by a computer for all I know. So your posts here don't prove you exist."
Sorry but I'm not prepared to discuss this asinine nonsense with you, as you might be "a computer for all I know".
@orignal post by quantummechanist
We as a human race do not yet have the tools to observe and learn about what happened before big bang. So any discussion of that stuff is purely wild guesses and conjecture. Trying to draw conclusions (or proof of other unsupported ideas) from unsupported guesses that cannot possibly answered right now is just an exercise in futility.
Your statements of: "when the universe begun and matter collided with antimatter" Is an unsupported guess. Sure that may have happened, it is one of the more reasonable guesses of what may of happened before the big bang but it is still just a guess. So, you will run into trouble pretty quick trying to say something like that is proof for your particular god idea.
And ofcourse putting aside even that point, you stated: "so there must be something out there that created the universe."
An easy boilerplate response is applicable here. Even if there was something out there that created the universe, that could be one of trillions of different possibilities, why would it be your particular god idea? There is no connection whatsoever with your particular god idea over the 1 trillion different universe creator ideas I just came up with, that remain undefined, other then they are all at least a little bit different from each other, that I just made up writing this sentence?
It is a bit like: hey, I am thinking of a whole number between 1 in a googol, care to guess which number it is?
"-is it 42?-"
"Nope!, oh actually I decided the number can be a fraction of a whole number too, care to keep guessing?"
Truly, trying to making asseritions when there is zero actual bounds and parameters (evidence, or anything observable at all) to something is an exercise in pointless futility.
▮ I am an atheist that always likes a good debate. ▮
▮ Please include @LogicFTW in responses directed to me. ▮
▮ Useful list on forum usage. A.R. Member since 2016. ▮
Ok let's say there is say there are n amount of possibilities that what I said is true so I have a 1/n chance of being correct, if I proposed a different theory for the possibility of how the universe came into existence we would palpably be in same situation. The example I'd given was just a possibility of how the universe could have came into existence and how i believe a logical explanation is God. No matter which theory i propose we still arrive at the same conclusion of where did that specific particle etc come from? and so far God has been the only plausible answer, i do have great respect for science in fact i'm doing my a-levels now with plans to go to university to study physics(God willing) as it has been a life long ambition. Anyway, back to the point, science answers many of our greatest questions but it cannot answer anything further back than the point at which science was created, it surely can't have created itself.
Really? Now calculate the possibilities of various first causes...
1 god, 2 gods, a table of gods, a Senate of gods, a grand council of gods.
A god that doesn't care about us, 2 gods that don't care?
A cosmic pot plant?
The number of multitudes is astronomical!
i'm not here to debate about a caring God , that is completely irrelevant i'm here to talk about His existence
"i'm not here to debate about a caring God , that is completely irrelevant i'm here to talk about His existence"
So why the question on the beginning of the universe? It is not definitively proven that any god created it, we may as well talk about fluffy bunnies.
I never said you was, I was simply displaying the number of possibilities...
Again, one god, two gods? 3? 4? 5? 6? 7? 8?
A trifecta of one caring god, one evil and one unmoved?
The fact is, you cannot get from the early conditions of the universe causally back to a God without committing a logical fallacy.
At some point you will have X phenomena and then when you fail to comprehend or explain the reasoning you'll throw the god card down.
"i'm here to talk about His existence"
Stop talking about it, and try evidencing it.