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Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
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@God is AWESOME
True, but I also have not heard, touched, smelled or tasted god. Zero for 5 of the senses is not a good start on your bold statement.
Your "god" concept has never said this. Even you have to admit that. Someone told you (either in a book or in a sermon.. probably both) have told you this, god has not told you anything. Hmm wonder why...
Basically you are saying throw away logic, reasoning and any need for the burden of proof and follow your emotions instead. You know what starts wars? Emotion.
I have not seen or heard from other people anything that is awesome about the god concept. Only thing I have seen is brainwashing and a shortcut to answers not based on truth and evidence that tell people what they want to "hear." (Oh there is an afterlife, oh there's a "sky daddy" that tells us what to do and what we are here for, purpose of life etc.)
Why is it "evil" to not follow god? Because you and your friends say so?
Oh look you are repeating yourself. How do you know this supposed jesus character is not a liar? You will likely even admit you never met this jesus character. If you take it on faith jesus is not a liar, do you take it on "faith" that I am not a liar?
So this jesus character demands I have faith in him and believe he is not a liar even though I never met the guy, and if I do not believe in him I am evil? That does not sound like a friend to me, that sounds like a horrible person I would never want to be friends with.
Oh look more repeating, and a promise to defeat death... IF you have total "faith" in it and ignore all evidence. So a promise of what happens in the afterlife, something we simply cannot test or verify in this life, even though ALL the evidence from all the advancements in science state very simply when the brain shuts down consciousness aspect dependent on the brain fades to nothing.
I get it, you have been brainwashed and desperately want to believe it, you have invested so much of your time in this thought that the thought that you have it wrong (as well as your entire community likely) have it wrong is too painful to bear so you with the help of others will rationalize away any normal rhyme or reason that you normally employ to get through life. It is a very comfortable lie especially with so much invested in it. You can keep your lie, I am not trying to get you to change your belief system, just STOP trying to push your lies on others. I feel bad for any kids you have or will have.
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▮I am an atheist that always likes a good debate
▮Please include @LogicFTW for responses to me
▮Tips on forum use. ▮ A.R. Member since 2016.
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Logic, God is making himself known through millions and millions of believers throughout the world.
Gods Word says there are no atheists, because he has clearly shown them His glory, just by looking at creation. He says they glorified him not. He says they will have no excuse.
You want obvious Logic? God says he’s already shown you.
Are you suggesting that we (the atheists of this forum) don't exist? Or are you saying we're lying when we say we are atheists? Or maybe something else?
People do not choose their beliefs. To say that a person has no excuse for having the "wrong" beliefs is bullshit.
@God is AWESOME
Yet there are many billions more people that never heard of your god, or even anything remotely close to your concept of god. This statement is an argument against your god concept rather then for.
Also, why does this supposed all powerful god need people (that are capable of lying, fiction etc) do all his talking for him? Is he powerless or perhaps maybe.. possibly consider the simple reasonable logical explanation, god is made up... by humans.
You say god created humans, why is it no one is born knowing about god? Instead people have to tell kids about god? Over, and over, and over, again? (Every sunday preferably!) Or even better with a religious school that repeats this stuff day after day after day...
Why do you have to be the mouthpiece of god for me, on these atheist forums? Again why can't god speak for himself? Is he mute? Both in speak and otherwise?
Perhaps I am an idiot that is able to somehow write at a high level, but: obvious? I see nothing obvious at all except how obvious it is to me that the "god idea" is a figment of human imagination?
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▮I am an atheist that always likes a good debate
▮Please include @LogicFTW for responses to me
▮Tips on forum use. ▮ A.R. Member since 2016.
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"Logic, God is making himself known through millions and millions of believers throughout the world."
That's an argumentum ad populum fallacy, it is therefore by definition illogical. Are you a Muslim, a Sikh or a Hindu? between them they represent billions of believers that donlt believe your deity is real. If those numbers are not a valid reason why should yours be?
"Gods Word says there are no atheists, because he has clearly shown them His glory,"
Then those words are demonstrably false, as I am an atheist, and no deity have ever demonstrated anything to me. So both those claims are false.
I think you ought to stop offending logic as well, it is clear you don't understand what the word means.
Which one?
You should go down to the Veterans Administration and start laying hands on the amputees. Then I'll believe you.
Why won't god heal amputees?
Nyarlathotep, I saw it, the woman’s son saw it, the whole neighborhood saw it. You wouldn’t believe it if you saw it.
Jesus replied to those who got healed.... Your FAITH has made you whole.
Lots of people report seeing flying saucers and bigfoot, I don't believe that shit either.
@God is AWESOME:
Don't think we have not noticed you just ignored and stepped over the issue of amputees. You may think you have made some sort of clever response, all we see is someone that just avoids any issues that does not line up with their god delusion.
Firstly you just ignored Nyarl's question, when he asked why no deity ever heals amputees? Secondly what your describing is your unevidenced anecdotal interpretation of an event. It means no more to us than the identical claims people make for all other deities, or to have been beamed aboard space ships or flying saucers, or to have seen Bigfoot.
What objective evidence can you demonstrate for any deity or for any of your thus far unevidenced claims to have witnessed miracles?
@God is AWESOME
Yes, I'm still curious why it appears god won't heal amputees? We (most the atheist hanging around here) have our own explanation: that god does not exist, and "miraculous healing" only appear successful when involving conditions that are difficult to confirm or are known to go into remission with out magic. The fact that a person is an amputee is obvious to everyone and we can be sure it won't go into remission; and that is why we never see those kinds of magical healing rituals preformed on them. Implying the persons preforming these rituals already know it won't work on an amputees.
But clearly you don't agree with our explanation, so we'd like to hear yours: why do faith healers not heal amputees?.
@God is AWESOME
"I saw it, the woman’s son saw it, the whole neighborhood saw it. You wouldn’t believe it if you saw it."
Then it should be very simple for you to provide proof.
Proof, please.
@God is awesome
Really, that's what your pseudonym on this forum is? "God is awesome"? Do you have any personality of your own? It amazes me how theists allow the near eradication of their authentic selves with religions.
Do you understand that a muslim, a buddhist, an hindou, a sikh or whatever else can say the same things as you?
No Talyyn, no other can say this. Jesus was the only one who defeated death.
It's rather cavalier of you to claim that no one can say the things we've heard them say!
If "death" is not permanent, it cannot really be called death. Therefore, by definition, no one can defeat death.
You missed my point, i was talking about your " God will show himself if you truly want to believe. My religion is true because i had a personal experience." assertion.
I think you should learn about many ancient and contemporary religions before asserting that only Jesus cheated death...
Beside, since, per trinitarian doctrine, Jesus is God, and as god is immortal, the whole crucifixion and resurrection is non-sense.
You, as a Christian is likely to be ignorant on many, many thing.
"No Talyyn, no other can say this. Jesus was the only one who defeated death."
You're wrong we have heard many theists of different superstitions make identical claims for miracles to yours. There isn't any evidence at all that Jesus defeated death, just anecdotal claims made by unknown authors decades after the fact. You can believe literally anything when you set the bar for belief this low.
@God is AWESOME
"Jesus was the only one who defeated death."
Meh. Sisyphus cheated death twice.
When I was 19 years old, I started having a serious crisis of faith and begged that God would help me. I prayed at least an hour a day, usually crying, pleading for God to help me as I was terrified of losing my faith. I asked him to show me any sin I needed to remove from my life in order for my faith to be stronger, that he give me an even more humble heart and to show me the truth. All I'd wanted to do my whole life was to work in full-time ministry, and I couldn't imagine my life without being devoted to God. But he did not help me (I would say he didn't help because he doesn't exist, but I suspect you'd have a different explanation). I've always said I was dragged from God kicking and screaming. I had no desire to walk away from God and did everything I could to hold on, but I came to believe that he simply does not exist.
The idea that faith is a choice is silly. Faith may be able to help with the last bits of uncertainty, but it certainly can't just be chosen without any foundation of belief. I couldn't choose to believe in YHWH and Jesus as the Christ any more than you could choose to believe that Allah is the one true god and Muhammad was the greatest of his prophets. You and I could both pretend or go through the motions, but actually choosing to believe? Impossible.
Stone Jade, that was very very touching to read. I want to ask you because it’s a little unclear, what you were believing and in who. I am sorry, it wasn’t clear if you were striving to believe in general about God, or if you understood what Jesus did for you at the cross, and what the gospel means in regards to your life. You don’t have to beg God to hold onto your faith in Christ. It’s not what you do for him, it’s about what he did for you once and for all. Ministry comes after we understand what he did for us, out of thankfulness, not because we are afraid.
His salvation is complete. He said it is finished. He paid the price for all of mankind’s sin and defeated death on your behalf. You never have to be afraid. He’s a Savior. He said I will never leave you nor forsake you. He gives you the Holy Spirit and it’s the Holy Spirit who keeps you. The moment anyone repents and believes the gospel, they are seated on heavenly places in Christ. He doesn’t throw you in and out according to how great you are.
I once had to hear from the Lord, and I went on a three day fast because it was imperative I just had to know what was going on. After the three days at the end of the fast, this thought came across my heard saying, Ha Ha, he still didn’t answer you. When I heard it, I said in my heart, whatever, I am going to believe Him anyway. And when I thought that, I immediately and clearly heard, I WILL BE WITH YOU. It was the moment I rejected the Ha Ha thought. I got my answer, and as I began my journey in a new city, every single door opened before me. I got favor in every area.... career, apartment, finances, everything. I understand what it’s like when you realllly need to hear and you don’t get the answer and especially at the time you want it. That’s when I have learned to trust Him. I tend to be impatient when I want something right away, and I don’t get my answer, but there’s no way I would ever walk away. Remember when some turned back and walked away and Jesus said to his disciples, will you leave also? They said where will we go to? You have the words of eternal life. All of eternity is about Him. This life is temporary.
The Holy Spirit leads you, draws you, keeps you. You can’t save yourself. The work is already done once and for all. You enter into His rest, and no one can snatch you from his hand he said. God is love. He would never leave you kicking and screaming. He accomplished all you need, and that’s where total rest in what he did for you comes in.
That is a lie.
If I said: "great! I will live my entire life as an atheist, avoid wasting my time in church, reading and learning about god etc, and then on my deathbed decide ya know what, I repent and I believe in the gospel now, give me eternal life." I get "seated on heavenly places in christ."
You will very likely say some variation of: "no it does not work that way. You cannot trick god."
Then what you stated is a lie, by with-holding a vital piece of information in this weird, unevidenced rule or deal or whatever you want to call it.
Also this rule/deal etc condemns 10's of billions of supposed "saveable souls created by god" that have already died to eternal hell or nothingness, (whatever your particular version of religion states it is.) As all these people never even heard of your version of god. Even if somehow your version of god was real despite it many many serious flaws and lack of evidence, that would make your god unimaginably cruel on a scale you could not possibly hope to comprehend, an eternity next to a god like that sounds like HELL to me.
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▮I am an atheist that always likes a good debate
▮Please include @LogicFTW for responses to me
▮Tips on forum use. ▮ A.R. Member since 2016.
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Logic,
It is no lie. And YES, if you lived your whole life against Him, and on your deathbed, turn and believe on Jesus, He WILL save you. That’s how great He is. He is the epitome of love. He made an everlasting covenant when the price for your sin was already paid. He PAID IT ALL for you.
You cannot earn eternal life by doing your best works. It was the payment and removal of sin by Christ, done once and for all. God said he would justify whoever believed on His Son. You have a gazillion dollar inheritance in Christ and you don’t realize it’s sitting there for you. That’s what the whole New Testament is about, and people don’t get it!
That’s how faithful He is. There’s a scripture I love in 1 John 5 that says:
10 He that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may KNOW you have eternal life
He says those who don’t believe God about his Son, are calling him a liar. He means what he says. Let the mockers mock!
Even on your deathbed..... YES, eternal life. There is no better news than the gospel. EVER.
The gospel promotes eternal torture, the most immoral dogma ever devised. Following such a dogma does not represent truth in anyway; it does not promote good, only evil. According to Christian dogma, most people who ever lived will experience eternal life by being tortured for eternity.
You keep saying that Jesus has already absolved humans of their alleged crimes, that is has been "done once and for all". And yet you keep also acting as though this absolution is in the future, in return for following something contrary to the evidence and and common standards of morality. You cannot have it both ways.
Hey that is great news. I will go on being an atheist, and on my deathbed I will repent etc, if I feel a need to. So.. why don't you do this?
Why not skip out on all the sermons, have some fun, enjoy life, not worry about damnation etc, free up your Sundays, and other major religious holidays, (hey spend time with the family instead of sitting in some crowded church?) then on your deathbed do the same? What is the whole point of religion, church and worshipping god if that is all that is needed? And ya know make more friends by not constantly trying to prosthelytize them?
No other rules? Just as you state it? I am also going to cover my bases if I feel like it, and just say any and all gods that people believe in, just incase ya know your particular religion is not the correct one out of the many thousands of different religions?
Actually per your rules, I just did it just now, a quick thought. Woah that was easy. All done with that, bases covered incase I die suddenly and don't have time on my deathbed. Back to be an atheist now. Or are their new rules you want to add to your simple statement?
Logic,
He’s been so faithful to me, and I want to be faithful to Him back. I wouldn’t want to chance being saved the last minute on a deathbed. I knew when I heard the gospel, it was right and had I died, I knew I wasn’t right with God. I had to know in my heart that I had eternal life.
He is going to lead you and speak to you. I believe you are going to be saved.
@God is UNSUBSTANTIATED
You don't show "faith" or "loyalty" in something by believing in it contrary to the evidence. It is absurd to imply that believing something without evidence is a virtue.
Also, it is very easy for a being to have "faith" in your existence when it is supposedly omnipotent and thus knows you exist.
It is clear that you see having faith in a person's praiseworthiness and having faith that a person even exists as being two interchangeable things: they absolutely are not.
You have already made it clear that you cannot provide a "God" that can be observed through the senses: this completely spoils your merchandise. Asking people to have blind faith in a being's praiseworthiness is bad enough, but you are telling people to have faith in something without evidence knowing full well that it cannot even be observed to exist.
"Faith is believing what you know ain't so." — Mark Twain
(I suspect I have that quote to mind from reading it in past threads from time-to-time).
If your deity is love why does it repeatedly endorse slavery, murder, genocide, ethnic cleansing, rapine, and the sex trafficking of female prisoners amongst the victors if they happen to be virgins?
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