Why can we not observe God?

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Sheldon's picture
Ferguson 1952 "I read the

Ferguson 1952 "I read the whole Bible once"

Yet still made the idiotic claim (above) that no one has ever seen God, despite your bible making multiple claims they have.

Are you a liar then Ferguson, or did you just make up an idiotic claim you thought no one would refute with biblical quotes?

You are so often wrong, on such a broad range of topics, it really is impressive in it's own way. Getting facts wrong that you could simply check online in a few seconds though is pretty dumb, Ferguson. Worse still you don't seem to learn from this, and again it's clear you prefer to arrogantly revel in your ignorance.

Sheldon's picture
I am positive God the Father

I am positive God the Father never appeared to anyone. 

Then you're as dishonest as you are stupid.

Genesis 18
And the Lord appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, as he sat at the door of his tent in the heat of the day.

Genesis 12:7
The Lord appeared to to Abram and said,...

Genesis 17:1
Now when Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him,

Acts 7:2
And he said, "Hear me, brethren and fathers! The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham when he was in Mesopotamia,

Ferguson 1951 "Owing to your university teachings"

Wrong again, I have never attended a university. The arrogance of your verbiage is trumped only by its breathtaking ignorance.

These tantrums are just making you look more and more silly, and given your contributions thus far, that's impressive in it's own right.

Ferguson 1951 "You keep reapting the same things like a scratched record. It really is too much for me."

Well dim-witted bombast, and arrogant superstition does tend to bead up and roll off cogent reasoned logic. Though to be fair you've got something right here for once, as it's clearly been too much for you from the start, you're way out of your depth. I'd feel sorry for you if you were not quite so angry and arrogant.

David Killens's picture
@ferguson1951

removed by author, borderline trolling.

LogicFTW's picture
@ferguson1951

@ferguson1951

You are deeply PREJUDICED against Christianity and Christians, That is the way they brainwashed you to think at university.

Don't worry I am somewhat prejudiced against pretty much all religious folks, not just christianity, although they are the most common on these boards. I have come to the conclusion against religion/god before I went to college. What do you think happens in colleges? Do you really think they just brainwash against religion? Also, more than half of the US population under the age of 35 have done at least some college, (even if they did not graduate with a degree,) and that percentage has been increasing a lot in the last few decades. By your reasoning you got a lot to be worried about, you are quickly going to become a minority of people that avoided the dreaded "brainwashing" colleges supposedly do as you claim.

David Killens's picture
@ferguson 1951

@ferguson 1951

"You are deeply PREJUDICED against Christianity and Christians"

I am an air force brat. That means I was born in 1950 to a white christian military family, and for all of my formative years I lived on air bases. Active military bases are located far from anywhere, and thus very isolated from mainstream society. I grew up where religion and god was accepted like air and water, it was just there. I was also raised in an extremely racist society. We used very insulting terms for anyone not anglo-saxon white. I was definitely a WASP (white ango saxon protestant)

Where I lived and surrounded by my peers, it would have been the easy route to accept religion and racism. It did not happen overnight, but I swam against the current and first broke free from racism, and yes, I am darn proud of that. And later in my life, I eventually escaped the bondage of religion.

The word prejudiced is basically pre-judging, to make a judgement before you know and understand what you judge. Trust me, I know a lot about religion and christianity.

Therefore ferguson1951, your statement is invalid and incorrect. The shit you are throwing does not stick to me.

NewSkeptic's picture
@Fergmeister:

@Fergmeister:

"This time I mean it. I am leaving this forum."

I'm keeping my fingers crossed, but I won't hold my breath. If you do finally stop lying and actually depart, that would be more evidence for a deity than any of the ignorant bullshit you've posted thus far.

ferguson1951's picture
https://indefenseofthecross
Sheldon's picture
Another anecdotal claim,

Another anecdotal claim, swallowed hook line and sinker by gullible theists, and not one shred of objective evidence this was a supernatural event.

"Cynthia Nelson was a professor of anthropology at AUC (American University in Cairo) She visited the church site on several occasions including April 15, 1968, another week later near the end of April and on June 1, 1968. Despite the accounts of ongoing, if irregular, visitations by the Marian apparition, Cynthia Nelson documents seeing nothing other than a few 'intermittent flashes of light'."

http://skepdic.com/zeitoun.html

http://blog.evangelicalrealism.com/2009/02/09/investigating-the-marian-a...

In Spirit's picture
Hi Ferguson

Hi Ferguson

Legitimate question.

How do they know it was Mother Mary and not some other person?
Some of the visual descriptions sound like UFO lights or something else I can't describe.

Sheldon's picture
In Spirit "Hi Ferguson

In Spirit "Hi Ferguson

Legitimate question.

How do they know it was Mother Mary and not some other person?
Some of the visual descriptions sound like UFO lights or something else I can't describe."

How exactly are we ruling our perfectly natural phenomena? Natural phenomena after all have the advantage of existing as objective fact.

In Spirit's picture
@Sheldon

@Sheldon

You got it. That's why I included ".....something else I can't describe."
However, now I see how poor my choice of words were to convey natural possibilities.
Thanks for pointing that out.

Adrian's picture
That's the thing back in the

That's the thing back in the day there were supposedly supernatural miracles all the time. Not just in the Bible there were all these Saints with miraculous powers as well such as the power of levitation and the blood of a Saint could heal even mortal wounding. The Christian missionaries to England were described by Bede as performing all kinds of miracles including an account of the restoration of a withered limb. These days however we don't get treated to this we get to listen to William Lane Craig explain the rational basis for God and the resurrection of Christ. Can we see some miracles at all? No!

By rights it should still work now, it's not like the God power will have been diminished by peoples lack of faith there are more people alive now than believed in God back in the day. The Earth should be saturated in the supernatural energies of God by now. There should be Saints flying all over the place like Neo from the Matrix and severed limbs being fully resorted all over the place. The only miracle I ever saw make the News were some Hindu idols that drank milk. As it stands Hinduism is the only religion that has provided....something. It's not great but it's more than anyone else so far.

LogicFTW's picture
Keeping with the normal

Keeping with the normal status quo, the hindu idols drinking milk has been easily and definitively debunked as well, rather easily.

And seriously, drinking milk? That is supposed to be evidence of "god" for these people? I gotta admit some of the stuff these folks come up with is pretty hilarious if it was not so horrifying example of human gullibility.

David Killens's picture
@Dark One

@Dark One

In these times almost everyone has a camera. All of a sudden a personal claim is insufficient, and to date there have been zero photographs or videos to support any miracle claims. I love modern technology, it closes off an excuse.

Cellphones have raised the bar in credibility, and religion has failed the test.

Kafei's picture
@Old man shoutsI will

@Old man shouts

I will disregard the whining in the first paragraphs. You have failed completely to prove your proposition of "a divine". despite using most of the world's supply of circumlocutions, confusion,word salad and woo terms.

Just because something flew over your head, doesn't necessarily mean it's "word salad." You're obviously unfamiliar with the content I speak on. It's quite obvious that you're only just being introduced to this scientific research I've been citing. Whenever I see someone use the phrase "word salad" in response to my posts, it's an automatic red flag that reveals quite obviously the interlocutor is not willing to engage in sincere discussion on these topics. They've already, in their mind, defined it as nonsense, so what's the point of continuing? I'm noticing this pattern here. Nyar locked my thread when he didn't even read it. I was blocked by social outcry from the whiny atheists at the freethoughtblogs for The Atheist Experience. I can't post there, that's why I'm addressing twarren1111's response here. I haven't broke any forum rules at all.

Then you say:

re you talking about when Old man shouts was confusing ODing which would consist of a toxic or fatal dose in contrast to a "heroic dose"?
You misrepresent me.

No, I've presented you quite accurately.

ALL the drugs used in the experiments are classified as toxins.

These drugs I'm speaking about are classified as psychedelics or entheogens. When you're talking about toxicity, for someone who weighs approximately 130 lbs, they'd have to bolt down 3.7 lbs dried (37 lbs fresh) of psilocybin mushrooms to approach a toxic or fatal dose. That's what an overdose is, it's when you reach the toxic or fatal range of the drug. Now, a "heroic dose," on the other hand, is estimate for someone at that same weight to be between 5-8 dried grams. Of course, there's many factors involved, such as ADME, how much a person had eaten that day, whether they've fasted, if they took other drugs, how much psilocybin to psilocin was in the mushrooms, etc. If the mushrooms are weak, you may want to go higher for a 'heroic dose,' as in 9 to 15 dried grams. However, the point is that the "heroic dose" is well away from a toxic or fatal dose. You could literally get away with taking a Kilindi Iyi-recommended dose, and live to tell the tale. Most experienced users will tell you that it's not your mortality you fear for in these experiences, it's your sanity.

How toxic they end up depends on the dosage. ANY dose of your experimented drug is poison, an "heroic" dose is an overdose you fucking airhead.

No, it's not, for the reasons I've pointed out. I believe this is the third time I've had to explain this to you.

'O'ding' is a colloquial term for taking so much of a drug that it can be fatal...and that depends on the victims general health, sex, weight, stature, metabolism...exactly the same fucking parameters are used to determine the overdose you childishly term a fucking 'hero's dose'. Utter bollocks you spout. Read the fucking papers.

I have read the papers. Have you?

All you have brought to this forum is the surprising knowledge that if you OVERDOSE on some hallucinogens you will get a chemically induced hallucination, one that has similarities to one that can be obtained by deep practised meditation and exercise.

The way the professionals put it, even in the peer-reviewed material, is that these mystical-type of experiences appear virtually identical to those naturally occurring mystical experiences reported by mystics throughout the ages. They use "mystical-type" because these experiences occur on a spectrum, they can range all the way from what they call the "archetypal/visionary experience" to the "unitive" or "complete" mystical experience. These professionals consider these mystical states of consciousness evidence for the Perennial philosophy, and the divine or God is most understood within this particular context.

That is all you have fucking brought to the table.

With the misconceptions you've held throughout, I'm not quite sure you've understood what I've "brought to the table." I'm attempting to redirect people's attention to the science which has been established which certainly isn't an attempt to spew "word salad" at all. We're definitely not talking about your grandma's God here often parodied as "Sky Daddy," "Sky Wizard," Sky Genie," this is no the "supernatural Santa Claus" or the "omnipotent Deity" that is out there in the universe or a being or entity outside space and time. Einstein rightly referred to that as the "childish analogy of religion," and it is certainly the very basis for most atheists' rejection of God. Most atheists harbor this naïve and tenuous concept of God and it is revealed when they start speaking of God in terms like "deity" parodied in the Flying Spaghetti Monster or Russell's teapot, as though God were some object that's "outside the mind" whether it be out there in the universe or outside of space and time. I consider that to be a very common misconception.

Nyarlathotep's picture
Kafei - ...and the divine or

Kafei - ...and the divine or God is most understood within this particular context.

Why are you linking to a third party archive of what the Wikipedia page said a few years ago? Is there something "wrong" with the current version of that article?

Kafei's picture
There's nothing wrong with

There's nothing wrong with either. I recommend both. Sometimes, and I'm not sure why, I realize Wikipedia can be edited, but the description in the earlier page is more reflective of the complexity of the Perennial philosophy. I'm not sure why the latter pages have become simplified. I can't explain that. But I'd recommend reading both. I've noticed on many pages throughout Wikipedia, not simply the Perennial philosophy.

LogicFTW's picture
@Kafei

@Kafei

as though God were some object that's "outside the mind" whether it be out there in the universe or outside of space and time. I consider that to be a very common misconception.

So you are saying "god" is only in your mind?

Well there is a statement I can agree with.

You also reinforce this idea by "meditating or taking psychotropic drugs." Both of which can heighten the spiritual parts of the brain. If we carved out the spiritual parts of your brain, (without killing you or turning you into a drooling invalid,) does your god disappear entirely since it is no longer even in your mind?

You travel a lonely difficult road. You seemingly reject the god ideas of just about all major religions, but you also think atheist got it all wrong too. You come to an atheist debate board, and throw around a new personal definition of your own god, and expect it to be well received?

You should know by now most of us here require real evidence before we accept any claims, and your "evidence" so far can be summed up to: "it is all in my head," did I get that right?

 
 

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Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Kafei

@ Kafei

You really are either stupid or deliberately obtuse, or have been addled by your own drug taking to excess.

Toxicity:

These drugs I'm speaking about are classified as psychedelics or entheogens. ,

They are nevertheless TOXIC in varying degrees. Exactly as I said you muppet.
"Toxicity is the degree to which a chemical substance or a particular mixture of substances can damage an organism.[1] Toxicity can refer to the effect on a whole organism, such as an animal, bacterium, or plant, as well as the effect on a substructure of the organism, such as a cell (cytotoxicity) or an organ such as the liver (hepatotoxicity). By extension, the word may be metaphorically used to describe toxic effects on larger and more complex groups, such as the family unit or society at large. Sometimes the word is more or less synonymous with poisoning in everyday usage. Wiki

"Psilocybin has a low toxicity and a low harm potential. Possession of psilocybin-containing mushrooms has been outlawed in most countries, and it has been classified as a scheduled drug by many national drug laws. Wiki

It IS fucking toxic.

I have read the papers. Have you?

Yes, I have, in detail. Unlike you I also read the academic paper's conclusions.

Hardly news is that that the conclusion is the unsurprising news that overdoses of certain hallucinogens can produce hallucinations. Fucks sake. How many times do I repeat that?

As a prodrug, psilocybin is quickly converted by the body to psilocin, which has mind-altering effects similar, in some aspects, to those of LSD, mescaline, and DMT. In general, the effects include euphoria, visual and mental hallucinations, changes in perception, a distorted sense of time, spiritual experiences, and can include possible adverse reactions such as nausea and panic attacks. Wiki

Psilocin causes chemical changes to the brain, much like those that can be experienced with deep meditation. That is a fact. The rest of your nonsense woo salad is just that. A mixture of wishful thinking and drug perceived hallucination.

The way the professionals put it, even in the peer-reviewed material, is that these mystical-type of experiences appear virtually identical to those naturally occurring mystical experiences reported by mystics throughout the ages. They use "mystical-type" because these experiences occur on a spectrum, they can range all the way from what they call the "archetypal/visionary experience" to the "unitive" or "complete" mystical experience. These professionals consider these mystical states of consciousness evidence for the Perennial philosophy, and the divine or God is most understood within this particular context.

Please point me in paragraph and line numbers where all these "professionals" (Identified by name) specifically conclude that " consider these mystical states of consciousness evidence for the Perennial philosophy, and the divine or God is most understood within this particular context."

Otherwise this will, like many of your claims , be dismissed as a fallacious claim to an non existent authority.

In Perennial philosophy there is no concept of a deity/god/divine, merely of 'oneness with All", so there is no need for the term "god/deity or Eric the Rainbow Farting Unicorn" to be understood in any philosophical context. Merely experienced.

It is the same goal of many gurus, shamans, monks, warriors, priests of all varieties of life, race and religion. It is still NOT EVIDENCE of anything that you have described as "god/divine/deus...whatever the fuck.

Individual hallucinations or deep meditation as INDIVIDUAL EXPERIENCES are not evidence of anything except the chemical effects of a drug/meditation/exercise.
If 20 people have similar hallucinations while trialling a drug it is not evidence that their hallucination is real, it is evidence of the effect of the drug.

With the misconceptions you've held throughout, I'm not quite sure you've understood what I've "brought to the table." I'm attempting to redirect people's attention to the science which has been established which certainly isn't an attempt to spew "word salad" at all.

Yet you have.
Over blown undefined paragraphs of verbiage.
Ill thought out terms that you re defined to suit your needs as opposed to the correct definitions in dictionaries.
Misrepresentation of academic papers and conclusions, all to suit your pre supposition.

You do have an arrogant and grating writing style which makes it very difficult to read, without the urge to vomit.

Let me paraphrase what you should say, and should have had as your OP...

"I think that the ingestion of "Magic Mushrooms" (Psilocybin) under controlled conditions bears out the Perennial philosophy, which I call god. Here's some links to the academic studies [not fucking youtube] that I base my conclusions upon. What do you guys think?"

If you had written something like that you wouldn't come across as such a turd.

(Edit; Minor word changes.

Kafei's picture
@Old man shoutsYou really are

@Old man shouts

You really are either stupid or deliberately obtuse, or have been addled by your own drug taking to excess.

I don't use drugs, and I could say the same to you. I've explained this to you three times, and you still haven't gotten it, and you want to talk about being "deliberately obtuse"? The only obtuse person here is yourself. My third explanation should have cleared this up for you, but here's a fourth attempt.

"Psilocybin has a low toxicity and a low harm potential. Possession of psilocybin-containing mushrooms has been outlawed in most countries, and it has been classified as a scheduled drug by many national drug laws. Wiki

It IS fucking toxic.

Not at low doses. In fact, this is why micro-dosing has become so popular. If we were to go by your definition, and just call it "toxic," then in this sense, everything is toxic. Even water. If you drink enough water, you could die. However, if you have water in moderation, it's necessary for your survival. So, I think it's misleading to call it toxic at any level, when the toxicity only occurs in the extremely high doses which are well above the "heroic dose." By your thinking, then water is toxic, even in minute doses. However, you were talking about ODing, and ODing only occurs at the toxic or fatal dose. To say it's toxic at any dose range implies you could OD off a single gram, and that's simply not the case. To characterize it in such a way is simply misleading.

I have read the papers. Have you?

Yes, I have, in detail. Unlike you I also read the academic paper's conclusions.

It doesn't seem like you've read the papers. You're still misconstruing and mischaracterizing how all this works.

Hardly news is that that the conclusion is the unsurprising news that overdoses of certain hallucinogens can produce hallucinations. Fucks sake. How many times do I repeat that?

That wasn't the implication, I'll let Dr. Roland Griffiths inform you on the implications. If your summation was correct, then your summation would be exhibited in an article which would resemble this parody, however it's simply not the case. That's why it's part of the parody.

Psilocin causes chemical changes to the brain, much like those that can be experienced with deep meditation. That is a fact. The rest of your nonsense woo salad is just that. A mixture of wishful thinking and drug perceived hallucination.

No, I'm not saying anything other than this here, that all the major religions practiced some form of mysticism at their core, and the modern science is recognizing the fact that they can reproduce these same type of experiences with psilocybin. That these mystical states of consciousness have been occurring throughout millennia, perhaps time immemorial.

Please point me in paragraph and line numbers where all these "professionals" (Identified by name) specifically conclude that " consider these mystical states of consciousness evidence for the Perennial philosophy, and the divine or God is most understood within this particular context.

Otherwise this will, like many of your claims , be dismissed as a fallacious claim to an non existent authority.

I've done that. You can find that here and here.

In Perennial philosophy there is no concept of a deity/god/divine, merely of 'oneness with All", so there is no need for the term "god/deity or Eric the Rainbow Farting Unicorn" to be understood in any philosophical context. Merely experienced.

The All is the understanding of God within the Perennial philosophy. That's right, it isn't a deity, it isn't a supernatural entity, etc. It's rather a panentheistic (not to be confused with pantheism) understanding of the divine.

It is the same goal of many gurus, shamans, monks, warriors, priests of all varieties of life, race and religion. It is still NOT EVIDENCE of anything that you have described as "god/divine/deus...whatever the fuck.

It's evidence for the Perennial philosophy, and the divine is most properly understood within this context. As Paul Tillich rightly pointed out that the root of all atheism is the rejection of the traditional image (of God as presence/being; what Einstein rightly called childish analogy of religion) and this is also what Ramesh Balsekar has recognized as the very root of atheism. In other words, all atheists are essentially attacking that which is not God, but a straw man of God.

Individual hallucinations or deep meditation as INDIVIDUAL EXPERIENCES are not evidence of anything except the chemical effects of a drug/meditation/exercise.

Says the person who's never engaged these type of experiences. More informed people will tell you of the potential of such experiences to completely break down the subject-object dichotomy and to completely dissolve the ego in an experience psychologists know as "ego death."

If 20 people have similar hallucinations while trialling a drug it is not evidence that their hallucination is real, it is evidence of the effect of the drug.

This is more like millions of people throughout history who've had the same unitive vision that can be reproduced in the volunteers at Johns Hopkins in a phenomenon in consciousness known as a "complete" mystical experience. We're not talking about a mere 20 people, but thousands throughout history, perhaps millions, and something that could potentially happen to your dear self.

With the misconceptions you've held throughout, I'm not quite sure you've understood what I've "brought to the table." I'm attempting to redirect people's attention to the science which has been established which certainly isn't an attempt to spew "word salad" at all.

Yet you have.
Over blown undefined paragraphs of verbiage.

So, all I'm hearing is that a lot of this stuff is simply going over your head. That's fine. Instead of admitting your failure to grasp these things, you'd rather just blame it on the other person and just say, "You're just walking word salad." Well, I've news for you, I've not used any single instance of a "word salad" here at all. Everything I say is backed in decades worth of scientific research.

Ill thought out terms that you re defined to suit your needs as opposed to the correct definitions in dictionaries.

No, I'm referencing how these terms are defined in the research, not the dictionary. You're the one that fails to recognize that. You think that these terms have been laid out in the dictionary somehow, and they haven't. You're referring to the WORD "mystical," when the TERM "mystical experience" is being used in the research.

Misrepresentation of academic papers and conclusions, all to suit your pre supposition.

Incorrect again. I'm not saying anything other than what's been established by this research.

You do have an arrogant and grating writing style which makes it very difficult to read, without the urge to vomit.

So, you don't like reading atypical and uncommon words or even religious vocabularies. I don't find any of this difficult at all.

Let me paraphrase what you should say, and should have had as your OP...

In other words, you're going to euphemize what I've said so it's more palatable to your own reading.

"I think that the ingestion of "Magic Mushrooms" (Psilocybin) under controlled conditions bears out the Perennial philosophy, which I call god. Here's some links to the academic studies [not fucking youtube] that I base my conclusions upon. What do you guys think?"

I'd point out that the YouTube lectures are based on the peer-reviewed and published material. There's nothing in the lectures that's not in the peer-reviewed material. And I have been posting the peer-reviewed material throughout this thread. Perhaps you haven't come across the link. You could also run a search on Google scholar for "mystical experience," and that would yield plenty of results.

If you had written something like that you wouldn't come across as such a turd.

I did write it to that effect, perhaps not that exact phrasing, but that is essentially what I've said.

David Killens's picture
@Kafei

@Kafei

"The All is the understanding of God within the Perennial philosophy."

1,329 words later and we finally uncover the kernel of truth, that you are a theist.

Kafei's picture
I'd say more of a transtheist

I'd say more of a transtheist than "theist."

David Killens's picture
@Kafei

@Kafei

"I'd say more of a transtheist than "theist."

If you take horse shit, mold it into a swan shape, roll it in batter, deep fry it, then liberally cover that in sprinkles and serve it on a silver platter, it's still horse shit.

Kafei's picture
Sure, but I'm not talking

Sure, but I'm not talking about horse shit, but rather science that's been established over decades worth of scientific research.

LogicFTW's picture
@Kafei

@Kafei

Decades of scientific research to what end?

Kafei's picture
This is scientific research

This is scientific research with a very rich history going back to the work of William James in the early 1900s, it's been further elaborated throughout the decades by Dr. Walter Stace, Dr. Ralph Hood, Dr. Walter Pahnke, et al., and it's been most refined in the more recent research currently taking place led by Dr. Roland Griffiths at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, MD.

LogicFTW's picture
You did not answer the

You did not answer the question.

I appreciate you explaining a bit of history/origin.

Again all this scientific research as you state.. to what end? Why are they studying this, what do these people hope to achieve? What answers have these folks gotten so far?

Kafei's picture
Well, I've mentioned that

Well, I've mentioned that they've established that these mystical states of consciousness are consistent with the Perennial philosophy. The goal now, considering how beneficial they've shown these experiences to be, is to pass a phase III with the FDA and legalize something like psilocybin for its therapeutic potential. This doesn't mean you'll have psilocybin over-the-counter or on the shelves at your local pharmacy, but rather it would be for psychiatrists, psychologists, etc. to utilize with their patients.

LogicFTW's picture
I am for legalization of

I am for legalization of psilocybin in the US. Heck where I live is on the forefront of this, (I live in Denver Metro area which recently decriminalized shrooms.) It should be another tool/drug available to psychiatrist/psychologist to help folks, like it was in the past.

Always happy to rant how hypocritical it is to have alcohol everywhere, but restriction on things like THC and psychedelics, while at the same time distribute billions of highly addictive narcotics from doctors no less.

A worthwhile goal, but I do not see how that is much different then the current marijuana legalization movement, making known mostly safe drugs readily available for therapeutic reasons.

Kafei's picture
I see cannabis being

I see cannabis being legalized concomitantly with psilocybin mushrooms. If I lived in Denver, I'd grow psilocybin mushrooms myself. It's actually quite easy to do, more so than growing cannabis. It's legalization for therapeutic use, however, it would definitely be a paradigm shift in how we think of medication. The big point that the professionals at Johns Hopkins are desperately trying to explain to the medical profession is that we're not talking about a drug that you've got to take over and over, but rather a single high dose which is curing people's depression, their drug addiction, PTSD, it's ridding the fear of death for the terminally-ill cancer patients so they can live the rest of their lives out in content, etc. It also has been shown to cause neurogenesis, so it may show promise for people with dementia and Alzheimer's disease.

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